Is Congress' massive opioid bill enough to stop the crisis?

Newell Normand
Monday, June 25th
Newell talks to Meridian Paulton from the Heritage Foundation and author Frank Shaw about the huge bipartisan opioid relief package moving through Congress. Is it enough to address this public health crisis?

Transcript - Not for consumer use. Robot overlords only. Will not be accurate.

In light of the number of folks that are losing their life to OP org overdoses. That killed 42000. People in 2016. According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The house says being on a ten year. Passing in excess of fifty bills 58 to be exact. Dealing with. This. Epidemic. And join in us on the line at this point is meridian Alton. Who is a research assistant domestic policy studies with The Heritage Foundation and we also have in the studio frank Shaw attorney and author of the books signals a transcendence historian dealing with his alcoholism. And and difficulties in the passing of his son due to a heroine. Addiction as well as overdosed. Welcome to the show folks who really appreciated. So Meredith I know you've removed from meridian excuse me I know that you have look that says some of these bills what is the breadth and depth though Roman art are these all I know there's some that are probably flop but that look seems to be that there's some bills there that are really meaningful. We have a right there are under so we you mentioned here at least six Eagles past the last few weeks. Who knows that and they package. And knows that we've been looking at net. Care. Attitude and narrow exception. Plane since that day. Been at that I'm writing it is cheap and keep people to get. In and that we. Medicaid and Medicare are ensuring that orders. Batting in the first place. Important to note that in that difference between prescription drugs hands until. But also how to. Outwit. He mentioned it out and about one piece I learned that there actually are well and analyze not not arm pretension that. I think eagle began. Opposite. To be. Right and I think we you know yes with the nomenclature we've gotten to that generalization. OP joy to be Earl and fentanyl. OxyContin Mexico. And so forth. In come along the mall in 21. If you had to pick one of the bills that you think has the most far reaching effect any thoughts on. And. And in any single. Far reaching. When it here and say a couple of them out on being at a helpful one to declare situation. Privacy. A lot of people don't realize that. It. Indian lot in 1996. I'm. Not hot topic can actually how there's probably disclose to their doctor and and accord that. I'm Latin. But it can actually be aware that for me a lot. And how people being problematic however. Got something that's been Claire I knew that we are a lot. I'm. Congress editor how we sit Claire. At the doctor and ask you you need me. What. Your man how history is lectures including your. And I think. That then. Doctor we're happy to get information that. And not prescribe them and they're going into. Absolutely a minute and it. It only makes sense right. It wouldn't want a lot and that she and her hair that op. Four is it going you are a bit of grip on things that thing to watch for. Stepping in an area where. The court however is. He and so and he needs to be so. I mean that. These treatment plants need to also eat Gary we need to be coming from the state to issue separate. Occasion. Southern border the odds that there you some other legal substance that team. Order unlock each. And now retired and think about. Eighteen. Went to. Earth. Weird to actually come on what. I. I think it and it I. In the northeast there is more sort agency action. Then you're then you're going to. And I think and I think it is just outstanding. And that is so. A bit at the scene. Congress want to react to get even at 810. That a lot to eat some. I end up putting it on the state. To beat in the. Right now put my skeptic had known that this has a lot to do with the twenty team mid terms come Brian. Absolutely. Absolutely. All congress wants. Slowing down again this visit but it certainly. I'm in how it's been nearly sixty. And it side of any a out. Out right. In action required that. Speaking out. He. Unlock that coming up. On the treatment by. Not a lot spot. On. Apple one and well. Beware. But but that you want to and we. Absolutely I mean when you when you kind of look at the offices some of these bills they're very much involved in contentious elections and you know edges it's not. It's not a coincidence as he will miss read it exactly meridian pol to thank you so much researcher says that domestic policy studies that there is foundation. We appreciate your insight thanks to. All righty. We'll be right back we wanna hear for me to success when it's and Texas at 8770. We're talking about the situation with the OP Ord crisis it will be talking to frank Shaw attorney and author of the books and signals that transcendence. His story of deep. Dealing with his alcoholism. As well as the loss of his son to hurl over. Yeah. We're back doing talking to frank Shaw attorney and author of the book single of transcendence. His story is dealing with his alcoholism and he's also lost the son choose heroine thanks so much for joining us frank. You know when we can you look at some of these bills and when you look at some of what score awning congress. And often times people are frustrated with not having a very directed approach into dealing with this and just kind of being straightforward. With that would it's been your reaction to which are seen in this movement in congress right now. Wallet I just became aware of the bills that were passed on Saturday I believe and really didn't have a chance to. Examine numbing great feat galas and the the one portion of the law enforcement. Aspect that should make it easier to. Dinners. Smuggled sentinel. Another synthetic OBO Lloyds which would make sense because. Out of the the London drug overdoses too I think there are three Ono issues campus to within two blocks. All of them had fatal doses of sentinel that were mixed in with. Which is a synthetic. Which is a synthetic but it steadily and at the very deadly and it's hard to get it on on the on the scheduled list because they changed war honored to chemical components and I think one of those bills deals with that issue where the AG can more easily get it on as scheduled list. To have an outlawed by you know if that they're just changing. A little bit of the chemical components correct. That's still that's the way I understand that I have and that actually see that don't know are is that finally passed. Right but it's just that but that would that that would make sense and the concern is obviously you know to get too much power to the attorney general law at the same time you want. Input as to what goes on and on what does not but. But that would be one of the one of the major concerns. And only talking about for the benefit to listening audience and and you've done a lot of you know reflecting researcher review of day you know and on these issues. When we talk about the OP org crisis procured a drug like no other drugs. And it's it's one and it's you know specifically heroin and then heroin laced with fentanyl. Is one it's become and they incredibly difficult. To deal with as an attic and were you know we've basically. Some of our successes had been putting people on another addiction. Well that's true. Ethics of mark's own as it is it is one of to treatments that you can then become addicted to. As as well but once you get into that typical. So to speak suppose that you. You don't have any choice but to go with Rio was but. The treatment system to my knowledge this was for the first time that I was ever aware of it. At Fletcher has never used. Alan. And the and to move the truck to block the parking spaces that the cons like Chia song that you wrestler and and he. Which he did and what won't when we got there so dollars and surprises anybody because. And I have seven boys and they say damn how do you know these things and you know Austin and went to public school people ask me where to go to high school listen in go to high school went to each day as the but we did not at we did not have this and so when you say an amount Dallas she is think the worse it could happen as he could drink a bomb intact and doesn't fall over and oak tree root. Or something and it on Saturday night and and that's not the case. By any stretch of the Edmonton. You know the challenges are are allied greater today let's total on one talked Agee courts say Eugene. I look ridiculous you sort. Yeah you'll only you know. That the deal of the day. I'll call. And then you know so. Well and it's also strange. Well the keys and you guys have no problem you see you know they'll comedy straight in opening crawl back into. Things. Happened with other people about about that are associated or knows someone who's back good via. And it judge it's horrible you know. I think all of this and the trying to try to get away from a Wendy do when it get away from. The draw is so strong they're busy day it is so much unit should you should just give. In. And I'm trying to help him best I can. And extravagantly. Ago and and I feed my quality of life is it is. Definitely a lot. In worse condition of what it blows before trying to help them. But you know. I just don't understand you know why. Why it happens. Would it do you think the thing is that we we can fight this. From you know do we in government you know regulations coast stock you know about me. Had injuries where there's you know legitimately want to get sleeping medication because what's going on but on street level. You know it's everywhere it's everywhere. And how will probably. I'm my own personal opinion mass frankly has that my own personal opinion is I think we need to to work hearted trying to on alternatives to appeal it is pain. Medication whether or not. That is tile and all 456. Whatever number it takes. You know in that respect because that'll that were managing it very well and we've allowed. You know they they disrupted the aid diversion when looking and how many pills doctors are actually prescribing of votes and getting buried intrusive and it looks and he. And they basically imploded it in when you look at a lot of the folks at left the with they have says it is. Is that it's the manufacturers. Who sold the doctor's bill goods. It's all about selling the pill one bloody pill at a time. And yeah they've lost sight of what it is that they're trying to accomplish in their god that doctors that are over prescribe frank your thoughts. Well I I think that's absolutely correct me statistically the Centers for Disease Control. It's as. It's cited statistics and 80% of all heroin users. Currently. Began on some type type of prescription OP you'll eventually morphs into that type of book. That type of an addiction and you know not enough feel your pain because you know that. You know bingo on it and not going to. A meaning for 31 years and and and these days we are seeing a new category. A person come and seeking help and that that type of things that. That's psychologists and medical doctors can't. Quite. I don't find the answer to and and he and you know thirty some open emblem I guess a hundred years ago whatever was Bill Wilson. Don't sound the responses to having an effective and deep spiritual experience which which is why I wrote the book was to convince my songs that. That no they needed to look to what they could give the life and not what they can take from it and and to have that that metamorphosis. And and that was why I believe one what I believe and to petition to tell them about that and in the process of that. That's when no one Fletcher. Passed away so. You know you or your situation is not uncommon and and and I don't know if you try to treatment or not. But. It has a couple of times if word for a little while anyway whether. But exactly what you're talking about it exactly what I'm going to mean it's it's horrible. You know it it's it's one of the hardest things in the world that I have ever seen anybody try to fight. And and you know it started just like you actual you know he. I guess settle recreational thing you know he took you pay your bills on history you know leave don't we constrained in what aren't social and and then it got to a point where it got out of control and he wanted to do down time tournament regulations step in we're less lets people. Were able go out there and a piece Christians and so LaMont street money. It was part of it again and again say look on his best friend you know introduced in heroin and now and both these guys. Osama and his best friend has been friends and wheelchair. Ran into the back of the ball truck yeah. You know an Irish quadriplegic can mean just think I can't believe that these these these. These people what can you not see what you're doing pretty well aren't why we don't. Well you eat you know the last time I was up there which from ten to twelve on Saturday night with a show called desperate reality from what the New Orleans commission talking to people. How are on the streets in New Orleans from non attachment from ten to twelve. About. There addiction and homelessness and he's going to the mission and and there are resources and people out there that have gone through a list of what that will will reach out and help yes. And and that story is not guns is not uncommon but there is an answer. Well we wish you the best she stay the course I mean you know every day he's alive is another successful day and you just got to continue that on and hopefully you get to some point a sobriety with for use on. And we'll certainly keep PM out thoughts and prayers as well. And we'll continue to talk about this and we wanna hear from you folks give us a call to say though got. A command. 260187. Near Texas said he 7870. As we continue this conversation this is new rule on debit audio. We're back we're talking about. The most recent pew report that says that move more than half the families in this country have a family member or friend who's been addicted to alcohol and or drugs. And just recently congress' taken on about the 58 different bills and dealing with the OP or crisis in in the introduction of scene. And talking about whether or not and you know these bills are gonna be meaningful having said that we know that there's no one's silver bullet panacea solution to this right. I know it's like everything in life it's more complicated than that from. So scuttle and three talked to Jane Slidell what say you Jerry. There's no particular call. I'll. So while significant other pro ball for so yours a few years ago but the error action or murders. There on some well aware about the dangers. Involved. Precautions they take deal with the picture. First of all people are aware that when it makes these pills like there next you know any kind of or pay ago. It doesn't have a respect it has today. Exponential facts are just a little either drugs and dropped pretty quick. The other thing that people realize is that taking pilot though these skilled bought these goals are I don't know. What alcohol create the toxins in your liver and how shall you long term due that are over year serve a public gives away all things the other thing. Unfortunately new tool terminal three has come true that will be well I wouldn't be there were trying to get people off. Well not usual usually. Well no medicine which is yeah I got it back you know and a number two would take what are proud of it you know just find something else that that's gonna work. Swap it out with a teacher right now until they can get the black market bureau. Beat back roll over there it goes right there there is to make people aware that they're addicted to a pain pill and you're getting more. Goto map and click or not ultimate. Answer which it would get off the street there will be a leader you have people from our calls. You know without neutral or the other thing is to make sure. That the people do legitimately need pain medication. Have been available to them or restricted basis like people where you know cancer 40. In recent major surgery. You know there's really anything better to treat hanging there like our conference so what are you need legitimately it's great expected. Like that your music you can pick a particular so the public these to be educated. They have a dictionary as a powerful earning disease there there will aggregate mutual over its you know stopping it think any support. All right thank you Gerri appreciate the call appreciating at the insight. And and just it just as an aside on that didn't. There are people have received a legitimate medical treatment that I have no prior history whatsoever. Of addiction and from from on US attorneys and federal judges. Down to a client that I had that of world truck in Vicksburg and broker neck and into their prescribed or OxyContin. And it led to disastrous. Results so. I mean if that can happen and his and it's and you need to be out had shoulder surgery and dental surgery and things like that. To have to via upfront and an open and honest with you doctor for limited purposes. If if it's for pain and mob rule of thumb is if it makes me feel normal then and it's good if it make me feel alone and Anita quit it. You know I had the same reaction I candy. Torn rotator cuff and they gave me. Oxy code owner toxic I don't remember which one it was. I did not like the way it made me feel well when I started taken and it was terrible well in the first day I took it. I just felt like I was trying to jump out of my skin and all I needed to do was sit on a sofa and watch TV. Which is a favorite past time for separate topic it ought to be relatively easy and I couldn't do it I couldn't do it and always have an idea nations. And so I called it a select. Can't take anymore at things I don't like the way it's making me feel I can't explain it totally. But it just feels weird. And I don't need to feel weird on this medication and aces no problem and I forgot what it was and he prescribed me. Never had a never had a problem I only took that for another two days and then started taken and whether. And they're all up there are other alternatives that that you can take I have a son once on who's doing fine who. Torn ACL when he had to and surgery where they've drilled in the bone and whatnot he refused to. Take it until 2 o'clock in the morning he text of millions that would burn burn me one of those a week we keep them under lock and key. So as to some extent you today that have to be used a new team you really do need to rain rain rain and then. And just say I've frank in your experience. They're just some people that can do that better than dollars. Well you have to be conscious of and it it was it was win. What went on women to counseling and and the fellow looked at these you know your problem as us know what I'm paying you seven dollars and tell me what. He's a your problem is you have no idea what your problem isn't he proceeded to explain me blockages that two drinks and stop and I was like well. I'm never did that Aaron and any negative personality does not it was a tight day. Personally I do everything like that eases would do the stuff that felt like that and don't do the other stuff. And you know that thought it never occurred to me before and but I was on the fact. But that's not easy either Africa as the bodies physiologically. Looking for something more I. I guess you know the Centers for Disease Control also says if you start drinking before you hit fifteen or below. You're seven times more likely to develop but a substance abuse disorder I'm only one person my family and and not talk about this in the book it's it's signals a truce and is dot com if you wanna buy an on line. And you know we went we would have these movies get togethers in a vacant lot in the right between. Judge Alan's house from that and across the street was district attorney mama leaders is house that we could've been arrested convicted and and brought to jail wasn't worth what without even leave and our neighborhood and at the time but. But that was the start of this and that was back in the sixties when. If you when you graduated from high school you could be shipped off to Vietnam in the moment box that we had other things we learned about it that time you know. Absolutely we wanna hear from you 260187. Near Texas 7878. Semi congress says so and trying to tackle this OP order epidemic and haven't introduced in excess of fifty bills addressing any number of particularly issues and I will continue this conversation when we return this is new rule on debit. Has your life been affected by level and who has overdosed 100% of the respondents say yes you know and it's sick it's not unusual frank. More and more when you talk to folks about this issue and if nothing else this soap York crisis and are those that are saying it's. It's a racial thing does it only affects me you know caucasians. And and that's why it's getting the you know the notoriety of the attention that it's getting and everything else but I'm gonna tell you I don't care. What race with Scioscia economic group what any thing about a family there's hardly a conversation and I have what's there that they don't have. Not not a friend someone in their family that's been affected by others. Right and and the Rio de program has. Calls for rigorous honesty and and I think it's time for everybody gets honest about this and address the situation isn't as it really is. And and deal with a man. You know the truth is not to hear Jack Nicholson right now saying you know you can't handle the truth blow we better be able to handle it because we've we're gonna have to deal with a 11 live one way or knowledge and the truth while also such you Friesen if you if you if you face a deal was that and own it. Than you can get on the other side of it and do some of. In your challenging and facing Euro alcoholism. Or what was that it. Where when it what was the defining moment for you with the light switch went off. Well I thought I talk about it in the book and and it and it's one. I hit my knees and realize there's Meehan and free will you know that you can battle isn't free will. That that what you gonna do it I needed help him and not and I said the prayer. That is no you know that doesn't the prayer that. That we need to say and it was help you know I need help and I hit my knees and found a bottle of my parents are left me and opened the Romans five maiden. And you know it's from god shows his love for us for a while we were yet senate while I was doing all this stuff. That Christ died from and in that discount overwhelm me and done. I spent two hours on the knees in my crummy apartment on C industry down the street from coach Reeve on its. And sandwich place losing then when I got up it was likes in my head lifted Iraq. Often make you know as in 1986. And. You're you're practicing lawyer successful practice session. Yeah well I was still trying to figure that out you're not I. You know model role in life. Whoever Thomas say that to a lord they say define success. Don't funds tracked us and defraud practice yeah yeah not like I'm still practiced and put them. While these days maybe I'll get it right Euro quit before before that happens but. I was doing defense work at that time and I guess I should have been doing pointers work at work offshore and and like setting go to high school with DJ and pump gas west of the image you know in all its other. Places that we talked about and and got had been talking to me in the old time from just throw stones not to come on you have to want to point. Once on the program among them Broderick and goodness of reasons it's an analyst and what do you think about that you know. Looking for some hypocrisy and she looked at me and forget that you look to me she says that's what I've been drawn Italians then. I'm. A so. I would continue this conversation that was called 260 winning seven in Texas setting 787. They were talking about congress has been introducing all of this legislation. Is a going to be meaningful. You know we've been talking with frank show is an attorney and author of the books signal of transcendence. Historian dealing with his alcoholism and and ultimately ends of dealing with the sun. Who loses his life to heroin as well would be right back up after this break. This is new rule on debit video. We're back we're talking about the open your crisis. Let's go along one Stephen what say you Stephen. Experience side took no shortage. And I hated it took a bird that you would stop. Well I had a quadruple heart blood tests are way. Told them and one open or. He gave him anyway. But by which hospital a week later I was on our normal. But anyway about two years ago. I ordered them on line for which you'll. Be real. Advertise it were true or they don't stick to vote. Now idea to try and call Tuesday. And I keeps. 0101. And then go to the lists and other road and like betray each. Including new York. And then Auburn is you took out an open door for a dollar that he. All of to a certain immunity from India. And you know. So that. There is usually a close. Group I'd get to five called everyday. I don't know I'm not I'm not familiar with any I listened to WWL excused exclusively on the of that data at all. Well not anymore this was about two years ago but god I should Hamlet alone here to. New York. Well anywhere and I'm gonna look a little. I'll look into we know we're just talking off fair Stephen that there is is dark web out there where you can. You know on the Internet get a all kinds of different things from overseas and yes frank you. You were talking about it I don't know that much about it but I I have I have heard that that you orders and next for instance and mailer or fentanyl. By mail and and it and it comes. It comes to a post office box and and as bill is supposed to. Authorize the attorney general on don't know exactly how to to have more action monitoring those types of those types of in the dark while his understanding is is that you've used encryption now. Dennis on hold as a whole different thing. With that thanks for Colin and Stephen appreciate your insight. Frank the final thoughts. Well and yet I was I never heard that ad and either out of it to it to me awaken a stiff in the morning is still a good thing so. It's always selling kids but. I would say if you if you wait to aged thirteen to talk to your kids you you've waited too long. And and you needed an aged thirteen to stand on the deck of the Titanic can go down with a man so you need to address it earlier and you need to address everything not to so call. All Roddy frank Shaw Zia attorney and author of the book signals of transcendence. Is story of dealing with his alcoholism. And any also unit suffered that did the tragic loss of this Sunday heroin. Then you know you when you think of about these things you learn to deal would life and in many different ways as a result thereof. We'll be right back after the break.